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Erica JorgensenErica Jorgensen has just written the first UX book that focuses on content research.
Strategic Content Design: Tools and Research Techniques for Better UX gives content designers a comprehensive guide to content-specific UX research techniques.
Erica is on a mission to bring more respect to content to content practice. This book gives you the tools you need to show to your design, product, and engineering colleagues the usability and effectiveness of your content work.
We talked about:
- the origins of her book in workshops she held at Microsoft
- how she came to being doing workshops on content research, featuring a powerful story from the health care industry
- the power of content research, including its ability to give content work more credence
- the variety of methods that you can use in content research and how to apply them
- the benefits of mixing quantitative and qualitative research methods
- how research can inform content and design-system guidance
- how research can bolster content designers’ reputation as customer-centric, evidence-based collaborators
- how research can lead to presentations to executives
- the connections between content research and content metrics, including ROI
- her book nerdery and book hoarding habit, and how she included references to most, if not all, of them in her book
- the importance for content designers to develop good presentation skills and maybe even take them on the road by speaking at conferences and industry events
Erica’s bio
Erica Jorgensen is a content design manager who’s determined to bring greater respect to the content field. To that end, she speaks frequently at meetups and conferences including UXDX, UXLx, Web Directions, OmniChannelX, and Button (ButtonConf.com). She’s worked in various content roles for both startups (Amazon, Rover.com) and global companies (Expedia, Microsoft). She also mentors content designers and content strategists through Hexagon UX, Ladies That UX, and the University of Washington’s Human Centered Design and Engineering program. Erica’s also the author of Strategic Content Design: Tools and Research Techniques for Better UX, to be published in March 2023 by Rosenfeld Media. In her free time, she enjoys traveling, working out, and visiting Washington state’s many wineries. She lives with her family in Seattle.
Connect with Erica online
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content Strategy Insights podcast, episode number 134. Most people would agree with the assertion that the craft of writing is valuable. Proving the value of content in a business context is a whole other issue. When you have to convince business colleagues of the usability and effectiveness of your work, content research can give you the evidence you need to make your case. To this point, advice about this kind of research has been scarce and piecemeal. Fortunately, Erica Jorgensen has just written the first book on content research.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hey everyone. Welcome to episode number 134 of the Content Strategy Insights podcast. I am really happy today to have with us Erica Jorgensen. Erica is the author of a new book on content research, and we’ll talk more about that in just a minute. It doesn’t have a title yet, and that’s one of the things we’ll talk about. She’s also a frequent speaker at content and UX conferences. So welcome, Erica. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you’re up to these days.
Erica:
Hi, Larry. Thank you for having me. I am super happy to be here. Yes, it’s true. I have a book coming out probably in March from Rosenfeld Media, and the working title was Content Research for User Experience. I did get some feedback that didn’t quite capture the breadth and scope of the book, so it may be called Winning Content Design or Empowering Content Design: Tools and Research Techniques for Better UX. We shall see.
Erica:
We will find out in the next week or two what the title will be, but I’m very happy to get it over the finish line because it was my little COVID project, if you will that I thought would be a great way to spend my time if I couldn’t go to concerts or see friends or travel, I was going to write a book. I think it was Tom Resing at Microsoft who was a colleague at the time.
Erica:
He made a comment after a workshop I gave at Microsoft on content research, and he said, “My gosh, there’s so much information here. This one hour workshop just didn’t quite capture everything. We could keep talking about this for a day or two. Maybe you should write a book about it,” and I just chuckled because I think it was like my 8th or 10th content research workshop at Microsoft, and I said, “Haha, that’s funny. That’s a great idea.
Erica:
Yeah, I’m not going to do that,” and then I went back to my desk and thought about it for a second, and I thought, “Why not write a book if I have a PowerPoint that keeps expanding and growing?” And people are excited about this, and it’s empowering content designers and content strategists to have an easier time at work, have our work feel lighter because we’re getting insights about our customers that are very powerful, that make the UX better, that drive business results and create revenue and save money and get people promoted and things like that. There are so many good things coming out of this.
Erica:
I said, “Heck yeah. Maybe I should write a book,” and I pitched a couple publishers, and Rosenfeld was the first to respond to say, “Hey, I think you’re onto something here,” and that was… Oh my gosh, two years ago. Two years ago this month was when I pitched, and I thought I would have it written in six months, and that did not happen, but here we are. It’s coming out into the world soon and better late than never. I think the printing house ran out of paper. I switched jobs and there were a couple delays in getting the final edits in, but it is almost ready to be released into the world, and I’m thrilled to help content designers with their work make it better, stronger, faster.
Larry:
Nice. Well, I for one is one of the early… I had the opportunity to read the manuscript just before we talked, and I’ve got to say I’m happy that that’s how you spent the pandemic, because it’s a really good book. I wanted to talk a little bit about the origin story of the book, and now you gave that story, the specific story of the origin of the book, but I guess, let me back up a bit. What led to the workshops? Why were you doing all those workshops at Microsoft?
Erica:
Oh, interesting. Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, I think I need to go back about six or seven years when I was working at Premera Blue Cross, working with a wonderful experience designer named Irish Malik, and she and her team were doing a lot of customer research, a lot of ethnographic research, which is super rare. I think if you have the chance to do ethnography, you are a lucky person.
Erica:
They were working with cancer patients, they were working with people who use their pharmacy benefits. I think healthcare is so confusing and so intimidating, and these people in tears. Using your insurance is hard and I think the thing that we were working on was the Affordable Care Act plans. People were being essentially forced to buy insurance, whether they wanted it or not, whether they could afford it or not. I don’t think I’ve ever worked with more reluctant customers or a more confused emotional audience than this health insurance audience.
Erica:
It was a tough thing to be working on. We found some of the most simple healthcare terms were unclear to our audience. I shared this example with the Seattle Content Strategy Meetup folks. Sorry if you’ve heard the story before, but I think this is one of the most powerful content research stories I have, is we were selling gold, silver, and bronze healthcare plans from the homepage of premera.com.
Erica:
Super simple for anyone who’s seen the Olympics. You get it. Bronze, silver, gold. You got your least impressive version of the product, you’ve got your happy medium, and then you got your expensive fancy gold version. We had the short window to sell the healthcare plans, something like six or eight weeks, I think for the first year of the Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act plans.
Erica:
We had to sell a bunch of plans in a very short window of time, and it looked like the HTML was broken. We were selling some bronze, we were selling just a few gold plans, but the silver plans were not selling. I looked at the analytics and I was like, “What on earth? Let’s check the HTML. There must be a code error. There must be a missing slash or bracket in the code or something,” but the code was not broken.
Erica:
There’s something cooking that we couldn’t quite put our finger on, and so we ran a quick survey. SurveyMonkey was the tool that we used at that point. We needed an answer quickly of a why the heck people were not buying the silver plans and what we found was we asked them, “What plan would you buy and why? What plan would you not buy and why?” And people said, “Silver. I’m not old. I’m not a retiree. I’m not over 65. I cannot buy a Medicare plan, so I am not going to buy a silver plan for myself.”
Erica:
We didn’t have anything on the design. There’s nothing on the homepage that would indicate, “Hey, this is a Medicare plan,” but people thought these three plans right next to each other were different for some reason. They were avoiding the silver plan like it had kryptonite on it, or they’re allergic to that CTA button. It was shocking that the audience didn’t understand what silver meant. That’s where I thought, “Wow, this is amazingly.”
Erica:
We updated the homepage with a line of text that said, “This is an Affordable Care Act plan. If you want medium level of benefits, medium price, this is the plan for you,” and literally, the minute after we hit enter on that addition of content on the homepage, we started selling more plans, which was… We had a lot of executives very nervous about the sales and the KPIs and the goals and everything.
Erica:
We weren’t anywhere near reaching our goals until we added that little line of content that clarified things that we didn’t realize we needed until we asked our customers, “What’s cooking in your brain?” That was really eye-opening to me. Was that 2015? Oh. What year was that? I can find out what year that was, but that was a long time ago and I think doing that customer outreach, hearing from the customers in their own words what they’re thinking was so valuable, and so much of it pertained to content, not necessarily design.
Erica:
I don’t want to undermine any research that focuses on design, but I found a lot of the business results, a lot of the impact was related to content when we’re talking about this sort of research and I thought, “Why isn’t this something that’s taught? Why isn’t this a thing for more UX teams, more content strategy teams, more experienced design teams? It’s really a lot about the content.”
Erica:
I got a little rabble rousey and passionate about this and gave a lot of workshops at Premera. When I joined Microsoft, I did a lot more. I worked in content marketing for cloud marketing and found that it was like magic almost that when you find out what words are working for your audience and why, things happen. Good things happen. It gives more support to the practice of content design and content strategy.
Erica:
It gives you more respect across your product team. You should get respect anyway, but we all know that it’s hard working in content. Product managers, engineers, other folks in the product organization don’t always get what we do, but when you hold the power, when you have the power to transform the UX, which you do, that’s when magic happens. So yeah, I think of it as a magic wand. It’s like the anti-kryptonite. The kryptonite that we saw on the Premera site, we fixed it and people got talking. They started talking about, “Oh my gosh, this is amazing,” and it is amazing, but it’s also just practical.
Erica:
Just listening to your audience makes perfect sense. We don’t always have time to do that, but I advocate making time to do content research studies instead of doing office hours, which is not always a popular approach because office hours are useful, but I think if we can take an hour or two, a week, instead of spreading ourselves thin and feeling frazzled by serving so many people in a frantic office hours environment, which they don’t always need to be high stress, but I have found them… When 20 people show up and want your help, and there’s just you, that’s not a good feeling. I advocate not doing office hours, and instead, spending that time doing content research.
Larry:
The way you just told that story and that insight at the end there, it reminds me of the first lesson in journalism school, which is show, don’t tell.
Erica:
Show, don’t tell.
Larry:
Then your research showed that like, “Oh, here’s what’s going…” Because that’s so interesting. That’s such a great story that the context was so important for the word “silver”. Any other context, gold, silver, bronze would’ve worked great.
Erica:
Who knew? Yeah, it was flabbergasting.
Larry:
Yeah, no, that’s so interesting. I love also that one of the main benefits of this is that it helps us as a profession gain respect and have even more impact, but the real impact is the results for the end user and how it helps them. I love that we’ve gone two or three layers deep right off the bat. You mentioned that that was an interesting combination of just a gut instinct. You’re looking at the analytics going like, “That’s not right.” Because there’s probably different situations that might call for different methods or different approaches, can you talk a little bit about that? Maybe other examples or just other approaches to-
Erica:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m trying to think. There are so many different methods in the book. I try to boil it down to about nine different research approaches, whether it’s using multiple choice questions, open-ended questions, scale questions or Likert questions of on a scale of one to nine, how confident do you feel as you do this task? That kind of thing. I’m trying to think of how I can answer your question in the most eloquent way.
Erica:
Again, I have a little matrix. I put a cheat sheet that’s in the book that helps you… Little decision tree of like, “Okay, if I want to know this, what research method or question type do I use to try to simplify things?” I think my favorite combo is to do… If you’re doing a multiple choice question of which word do you prefer, or which phrase do you prefer, or what is clearest to you kind of example, and then follow those quantitative questions up immediately with a qualitative question, which means tell me why.
Erica:
Why do you think that? Tell me more about why this is what you believe. Not in a judgmental way, but in an open share with me. Share me what’s on your mind sort of way, and that one, two punch of a quantitative question immediately followed by a very simple, open-ended qualitative tell me more question is really where the magic happens. It’s great to know what people think, what words are clearest, what words are not clear, what’s working, but it’s the why that really empowers you. Like I said, with the silver example of, “No, silver’s not for me,” but why?
Erica:
It’s good to know that silver was not resonating with the audience, but it was the why of like, “Oh my gosh.” I think that what we found out at Premera was… The remainder of the calendar year when the affordable care plans were not for sale, they were selling Medicare plans, so people who had visited the website had a mental model of, “Oh, Premera sells Medicare,” and we were throwing something new at them and throwing them for a loop, and so we needed to keep that in mind, that the customer’s mental model, we weren’t considering that.
Erica:
We didn’t provide enough context or clarity for the audience. It’s that why is really amazing. You can see patterns. If you ask 10 customers, “Why do you think this?” You will see patterns emerge. You might not see something as clear-cut as with A/B experimentation, but if you do the work and evaluate the answers that they’re giving you in the qualitative questions or their answers to your qualitative question, you will see nuggets of gold bubble up.
Erica:
That’s where I think I get goosebumps hearing about your customers point of view, hearing it from their mouths, appreciating their point of view. It’s really important and I think . . . We’ve got our style guides, we’ve got our component libraries, we’ve got all these resources as content strategists and content designers, but how did those resources come to be?
Erica:
I think we’ve all got very strong sets of word-nerd skills. We’re all linguists, or we love thinking about word origins or we have a feeling for our company’s voice and tone, so we have good gut instincts about how our style guides came to be, but you can validate the words in your style guide with content research to say, “Yes, we know for sure this is the right word. We know for sure this is an engaging phrase.” You don’t have to spin your wheels.
Larry:
Yeah. This just came up in a meeting for me at work today that we were talking about how… Obviously research informs things like style guidance and component-building guidance. So tell me a little bit more about that. Do you see that as an emerging best practice around style guidance or component guidance?
Erica:
Well, I think it should be. If it’s not yet, I think it’s a two-pronged issue where we’re short staffed as content designers, content strategists. We’re often not staffed to meet the needs of our team. Honestly, the ratios, if there’s one content designer to eight product designers, you’re in a pickle. We’re not always staffed. Oh, I just totally lost my train of thought.
Erica:
I don’t want to say attitude thing, but I think often, our product team peers see us as… This is a sweeping generalization. Sometimes pedantic or sometimes know-it-alls. We are the word people. We know our stuff. Don’t mess with my style guide. I think showing an open mind, having a growth mindset about our content would be very beneficial to the practice of content design and content strategy as a whole.
Erica:
We’re not my way or the highway. We’re flexible, and our ears are open, our minds are open to the feedback from our customers, I think is a very good thing.
Larry:
Well, that goes back to my question too about how research can inform those kinds of documents, like guidance and stuff, because that is also a way to say, “No, we’re not just pedantic word nerds. We have evidence that guides this information.”
Erica:
We’re customer-centric. We’re evidence-based. We’re friendly. If you were to send a poll out to your product team peers, “What do you think of the content strategists or content designers on your team?” We’re often just so pressed for time that we might not come across as friendly or collaborative as we might, and this is something that we can improve.
Larry:
I love that you cite several examples in the book of ways that research specifically can help enhance our status. You just gave this example, and I think just in terms of… Maybe I’m just projecting my own struggles here, but the benefits of the craft. If you have research, you can say, “No, I’m not just saying that my words work.”
Erica:
Here’s the proof.
Larry:
Here’s the proof. The proof is in the pudding.
Erica:
Yeah. Yeah, I think totally. I think the point that you’re getting toward, content research can help content strategist, content designers, get a seat at the executive table. Not just your project or product feature kickoffs and things like that, but presenting to senior leadership, showing them the impact of your work. I think an example, I shared this at Button, I think this is another high impact example from the book was my coworker Trudy Hakala, who’s still at Microsoft, who’s an amazing content… Is super talented.
Erica:
[dog barks] Oh, there’s Rufus. An amazing content designer. She did a project that showed she’s saving Microsoft over two million a year from her improvements to their invoices. Every customer gets an invoice. It was a high impact project that showed more content, more explication, more details were needed to drive down the customer service requests, to drive down the calls and the texts and emails from customers saying, “Why is my invoice this much?”
Erica:
That’s an anxiety inducing thing for customers is, “I don’t know why I owe you this much money given the economy.” Everyone wants to know what’s going on here. Being transparent and straightforward builds trust with your customers, and that leads to loyal customers and customers who renew, who will keep using your product, who will keep coming back and recommending your product to other people. I think that’s another empowering thing from content research. It’s the right thing to do on so many levels.
Larry:
I’m curious about that example you just gave, saving two million dollars a year on the invoicing. Were there other changes made at the same time, or was it just content or I guess was it-
Erica:
Yeah. Oh, sorry. I don’t mean to interrupt. What we found was when the improvements to the invoices launched, there’s an immediate… How do I describe this? Steep drop in the number of contacts to customer service about the topic of invoices. And I give an example… I’m not a math wizard, oh my gosh, but there’s some math involved in the content research practice where if you know your customer service calls cost, say, throwing this out there as a general example, if it’s $75 per phone call per customer and you have 100 of those a day and you can cut into that number, you can reduce that number from your work.
Erica:
If you use Zendesk or other customer service tracking tools, you can see this. If you launch a project to improve a certain element of your customer experience and you know you’re starting with X number of phone calls, customers being tripped up by that experience, by that UX, and then you drop it by 10%, 20%, you can do that math and say you’re saving the company X number of dollars a day and extrapolate that by the week, by the month, by the year.
Erica:
That’s really impressive too. That gets people talking, and I think that’s where we might not be MBA folks. I know I was an English major and then a journalism major. Got my master’s in journalism. I’m not a math person, but there is this math, this very simple math of before and after. The percent improvement in the UX is super powerful. There’s many ways to measure it if you’re lucky enough to have dashboards. Power BI, Google Analytics, Adobe Analytics. If you can show the delta from before and after and translate that into revenue increase or cost savings, then that is pretty cool too.
Larry:
Yeah, I don’t know if you caught it yet, but I think two episodes back, I had Yael Ben-David on the show and she just published a book called-
Erica:
Oh, yeah, yes.
Larry:
What’s it called?
Erica:
I love.
Larry:
The Business of UX Writing.
Erica:
Yes.
Larry:
If folks want to get into the details of that, and that’s a really interesting pairing. In fact, I think it’s an interesting time in the profession. We were talking a little bit before we went on the air about the way Kristina Halvorson is shutting down Confab to focus on Button and the shift that was. There also seems to be an increasing awareness of performance and metrics and stuff. The outlook on the ROI of content and now yours on measuring the performance, I feel like we’re at some kind of a juncture here.
Erica:
Inflection, but maybe, and maybe it’s… Gosh, I wish that our industry naturally was respected and it should be, that our work is hard. Everyone thinks they’re a writer, but that is not the case as we know. Content strategy and content design is hard. It’s hard to do, and I wish that we were given a seat at the table just by being ourselves, by working with the words, by making awesome UX with words, but I think throwing this, the business ROI, I think if you go to usertesting.com, which just got purchased by UserZoom, by the way.
Erica:
UserZoom, UserTesting, Nielsen Norman, I think Jared Spool and UIE, there are different resources that you can go online and find different examples of ROI of UX, and it’s powerful. It’s powerful. I think I make a joke in the book of like, “Well, if you save the company $2 million, can you hire X number more content designers with that money?” Not always, but it can help you support your business case for increased staffing, for putting content designers on high impact projects.
Erica:
I think it’s a good thing. I hope in 10 years the industry will be changed utterly, and I hope this… Not to brag, but I hope that this book and other books like Andy Welfle and Michael Metts, the Writing is Designing, I hope this wellspring of self-advocacy of the industry will change it for the better. My daughter just graduated from college and she’s looking at me like, “Well, do I want to be a content…”
Erica:
I bet she will be a teacher, but she has that word nerdery thing in her. I can see her working in the industry, and would I recommend this for someone as a career path right now? I don’t know. It’s an uphill climb often. It’s tough. There’s a lot of burnout going around, but I hope in 5 years and 10 years, things will be better because of what’s happening now, because Kristina’s focused on Button, because of Andy’s book, because of Yael’s book. So many other amazing titles out there too. I think Rachel McConnell, Beth Dunn, so many people doing the work to build respect. Build respect, and lift each other up. That sounds cheesy. That sounds cheesy, but that’s really what it’s doing.
Larry:
No, and your book is going to… You definitely have contributed to that already. The other thing I want to mention. You just mentioned a whole bunch of resources there. That’s one of my favorite things about the book. Wherever there’s an opportunity to mention other resources, you are pretty comprehensive … I know this field pretty well, and I don’t think you missed any opportunities in the book to list resources. It feels great to have the answers-
Erica:
I wish I could show you… I’m in the middle of transitioning offices, but I have a ridiculous number of books. I’ve always been a… Well, I worked at Amazon. I was a book reviewer for Amazon, and I’ve worked at Barnes & Noble long ago. I worked in a bookstore. I’m a book nerd and I’ve got digital books. I’ve got print books. I think also Ahava Leibtag, Margot Bloomstein. There’s so many authors who’ve written about content strategy 10 years ago.
Erica:
I think Ahava’s book is 10 years old now. The Digital Crown, maybe even older than that. That really got me jazzed, and I would use that book in meetings, cite specific sections of that book to show my product colleagues like, “Hey, this is a good thing to do,” or, “Why don’t we try this?” Sometimes it takes that third party… What’s the word I’m looking for? I’m still jet lagged from the holidays. Sorry, I’m not as eloquent as I might be. I am-
Larry:
I can’t help you. I’m fighting jet lag myself right now.
Erica:
What’s the word I’m looking for? Yeah, yeah. Larry’s in Lisbon, everyone. I’m so jealous that you’re in Lisbon or Portugal. I’m assuming you’re in Lisbon.
Larry:
I’m in Lisbon. Yeah, I’m in Lisbon.
Erica:
You’re in Lisbon. I am jealous. That sounds like a lovely place to be right now. I lost my train of thought, but I think yeah, there are lots and lots of great resources out there. I think I also mentioned David Dylan Thomas’s Design for Cognitive Bias, which is probably one of my favorite books from… Most accessed, most referred to books of the last two to three years. My copy is dog-eared and I recommend that at every turn I can, I tell people, “Go read this book. It’s awesome.”
Larry:
Yeah, he’s amazing. Hey, Erica, I can’t believe it. We’re coming up close to time. It just always goes way too quick.
Erica:
Talking your ear off. Sorry, Larry.
Larry:
That’s why I’m here. That’s why I have a podcast, is so people can talk my ear off. No, so I really appreciate it, and I love that we didn’t just do a recitation of the table of contents or something, because I really do like these conversations to be about exactly what we talked about, so thanks for that, but I want to give you a chance. Is there anything left, anything that we haven’t talked about yet or that’s just on your mind that you want to make sure we get to before we wrap up?
Erica:
Yeah. I was just working on my portfolio and I was thinking about how a couple years ago, I would never have been thinking even in the most vague way about presenting at someplace like Button or speaking on the conference circuit. Presenting a PowerPoint to my peers was enough to give me flop sweat. I think that’s a skill that I think is really important for content designers to learn how to present, feel comfortable presenting. To speak up and get your voice heard is scary, but so awesome.
Erica:
I’m still hearing from people who saw me at Button and I’m thankful that they’re encouraged and feel supported in their work by my presentation there. I think if you’re at all thinking about getting your voice heard more broadly, there are lots of resources for public speaking and building confidence and doing that. Alicia Dara is my voice coach from… Gosh, maybe four or five years ago I started working with her because I was so mortified I would get hives speaking in meetings. In a meeting with 10 people and like everything, practice makes perfect. I think public speaking, presenting is a skill that content designers can work on and it’s not scary when you get into it.
Erica:
If I can do it, you can do it. That’s what I say. I would’ve laughed if someone said, “You’re going to be at Button in 2022.” I would’ve just laughed in their face.
Larry:
Again, it’s not like I’m trying to tie these podcasts together, but Yael ended our conversation when we talked about her book by urging everybody to write a book, and now I love the combination. It’s like, write a book, do the talk.
Erica:
I can’t recommend that at this point.
Larry:
No, that’s true. Yeah. It’s unusual-
Erica:
No, it was fun. It was hard.
Larry:
Yeah. No book writing is-
Erica:
Yeah. Oh, totally. Totally. Writing a book is an endeavor. It is a commitment, but yeah, again, if I can do it, you can do it. I think working with Rosenfeld was a dream. They have so many resources for their writers. They will hold your hand the whole way through. They have managing editors, proofreaders, they have a whole shebang that a lot of publishing houses do not have, which has made it easier. Easier. They have so many titles.
Not to go on a little sales spiel, but they have so many great titles about the practice of design and other things. Jobs to be done, empathy, they’ve got a whole bunch. I think O’Reilly, same thing too. I know Torrey Podmajersky really enjoyed writing her book and how many times do I refer to that book a week? I don’t know, 10 or 20. Thank God that book’s out there in the world. It’s a great way to get your thoughts down and help others. Help others.
Larry:
Yep. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to do your book. It’s awesome, and I can’t wait for it to get out there. Whatever its title may be, we’ll update the title in the show notes . . .
Erica:
Late-breaking change.
Larry:
Yeah, it sounds like we got a couple weeks between when we’re recording this and when it comes out, so we should have the accurate title in the notes and everything. Hey, one very last thing, Erica. What’s the best place for folks to follow you online or to stay in touch?
Erica:
I am working on my website. It’s not quite ready for primetime, but I am always available on LinkedIn. Happy to chat on LinkedIn. Reach out to me. I’m happy to connect. If you want to look at my book shelf, all my books, I don’t know, however people want to get support, I’m happy. I’m happy to refer people to jobs, talk about the book-writing process, anything that people want, and I’m happy to support books in the content design world as best I can.
Larry:
Fantastic. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the conversation, Erica.
Erica:
Thank you, Larry.
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