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Kronda AdairKronda Adair helps mission-driven businesses succeed online. Helping her clients authentically share their expertise as digital content is a key part of this mission.
Kronda and I talked about:
- her evolution from web developer to a full-service, results-oriented marketing agency
- her stealthy approach to eliciting content from her clients
- her new “Content Bootcamp” product
- how she helps her clients with their communication strategy: crafting a good offer that solves a real problem, identifying the right audience, and polishing the messaging
- the conversational style she uses to understand her clients and their customers and translating that into an actionable content plan
- how she helps clients move from “media speak” to “just you” – their authentic self and voice
- her “gentle kick in the butt” technique to help her clients to actually get started executing
- her focus on the “why,” “the reason for doing it has to be bigger than the fear”
- how she became a resource guru – as speaker, she often offers a prize if anyone can ask a question for which she doesn’t already have a resource on her site
- how her second reading of “Work the System” by Sam Carpenter led her to become a process nerd and to start proselytizing and asking clients, “Have you accepted documentation and process as your personal savior?”
- how the only way to get past overwhelm is to become more efficient – is to document your processes – both for yourself and for folks you outsource to
- how good content can pre-sell you and your services – her ultimate goal is helping her clients become “that obvious choice”
- her new nickname, “Kronda-pedia”
- some of her favorite resources to help drive content creation
- how making content creation a habit can normalize the process and reduce the pressure on the creator
- the importance of separating content planning from content creation
Kronda’s Bio
Kronda Adair is the founder of Karvel Digital, an agency that helps mission-driven service based businesses automate their marketing to create a predictable sales pipeline.
She is a regular speaker at WordPress meetups and WordCamps and has been featured on podcasts such as The Kim Doyal Show, and The Out Entrepreneur with Rhodes Perry.
Her latest project is Content Bootcamp, a 10-week online intensive to teach overwhelmed entrepreneurs how to create and use content as an asset that saves time and sells for you.
When she’s not working, she can be found enjoying time at home with her wife, two cats, and Vizsla puppy, reading dead-tree books, riding one of her five bikes, or enjoying the postcard vistas of the state of Oregon.
[Kronda talks in our interview about the importance of always being helpful. For example, there’s that time she jumped on stage to help Ani DiFranco recall the lyrics to one of her songs.]
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
Transcript
Larry:
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 37 of The Content Strategy Insights podcast. I’m really delighted today to have with us Kronda Adair. Kronda is a digital marketer and strategist down in Portland, Oregon. She runs her own small agency down there. She does a lot of other interesting things as well. I’ll let Kronda tell you a little bit more about herself.
Kronda:
All right, thanks, Larry. Yeah, so, January is actually my sixth anniversary of being in business. I started out as a developer, just making WordPress sites for people. As the years went on, I’ve kind of evolved over time into different things, as I saw that just making websites wasn’t really helping people as much as I wanted. Then I started studying marketing, and getting into digital marketing and going in that direction.
Kronda:
I feel like I just keep swimming upstream towards the root problem. Because even with digital marketing, I found that, just creating websites for people, they still have issues with how to actually communicate with their audience, once the website’s actually launched. That’s why I created The Content Bootcamp, which I’m sure we’ll talk more about.
Larry:
Yeah, tell me more about that, because I know … well, I’ll tell people how we met really briefly. We met at a couple of WordCamps over the last few years. When we were talking last time, you talked about this stealth content strategy approach that you have. Is The Content Bootcamp related to that?
Kronda:
It’s kind of an evolution of that, so the stealth part of it … I think that you were the first person I actually said that phrase to, but …
Larry:
Oh.
Kronda:
But it’s pretty accurate. And so, what I would find is, when I would do websites for people, I would go through the process of discovery, and then, prototyping, and then actually building, and design, and things like that. During discovery, I would have people ask, “Oh, okay, do you need me to go away and write my content?” And I’d say, “No, you’re actually writing your content now. We’re actually talking you through.”
Kronda:
People are very passionate when they talk about their business to someone one on one, or maybe that small group, and I find it’s a lot easier to pull the information that I need out of them that way, than to sit them down in front of a blank page, where they usually freeze up, and we don’t get as much good stuff.
Larry:
Right, so you’re almost like a content coach, in that sense, as you start working with people. Because they probably come to you thinking, “Oh, I need a website!” And you’re like, “No, you need a place to put content, because that’s really how it works here.”
Kronda:
That’s what a website is, exactly.
Larry:
Yeah.
Kronda:
So, Content Bootcamp is … yeah, it’s kind of the next evolution of that, where it really focused on the coaching, and teaching people how to communicate with their market online. Because a lot of people are really good, one on one, or they can go and give a presentation. But when it comes to actually creating content digitally, they struggle. They struggle a lot.
Kronda:
Being able to, one, able to identify that you have a good offer, right? Make sure that you’re solving a valuable problem that people actually need solved. Identifying the right audience that needs that problem solved, and then, learning, what’s the messaging. How do I talk about what I do, in a way that’s going to draw people in, and that’s going to bring new clients in?
Larry:
Right, that’s like, a good small business content, kind of a messaging architecture strategy you just talked about. You know, one thing that a lot of smaller businesses struggle with is that research part of it, like, really knowing … they have a sense, like you said, they’ve all had conversations with their folks already, and they have a feel for their audience. But how, how much do you help them focus and articulate who they’re talking to?
Kronda:
I think that conversation is some of the best research that you can do, and there are definitely other ways to do it, that you can layer on top of that. But I learn more about my market, just from having conversations with them, and asking them questions about, “Where are you struggling?”, “What’s going on?” A lot of mindset and limiting belief issues will come out, that I’ll realize, “Oh, okay. I have to address this first, before people can even work with me, because a lot of people have blocks around even being able to achieve the things that they want to achieve.”
Kronda:
So, I think, just going out and talking to people … I had a client who left one of our meetings, and she was on our way to a festival to go take out her cell phone, and interview people on video about, “How do you use social media?”, because that was her thing. I said, “Wow, talking to people. What a radical idea!”
Larry:
Nice. Yeah, so you’re reminding me there that this … a quick back story here. I talk to a lot of different people in this podcast. I talk to a lot of people like you, like small business, and people who are working with small business owners in various types of content things. But I also talk a lot with bigger enterprise places who are doing, either content marketing, or bigger, more genuinely strategic content strategy itself.
Larry:
But one of the things that come up, you’re helping me identify one of the dynamics that I see a lot. Which is, for the small business, it’s often like, that kind of thing that you’re talking about, conversations. You’re not going to have the budget to hire a UX researcher, or a customer researcher to go out and talk to people. But, and you don’t even need to, because you’re already talking to them. It’s just a translation thing, from day to day speak, into this digital media speak. Is that accurate, in terms of how you work with your folks, or …
Kronda:
Yeah, and I think, getting away from the idea that you have to speak in a different way in person than you online. I mean, there’s a little bit of SEO, and things like that to consider, but by and large, I try to get people away from the idea of media speak, or social media speak, because it’s really just you. Learning to present yourself authentically, if I can use, sort of a probably overused buzzword.
Kronda:
But to do that online in a way that, when people show up for strategy sessions with me, I’ll often hear, “I feel like I know you, because I’ve been watching your videos for two hours, or because I’ve been getting your e-mails for a year.” They know what they’re going to get, and so, that’s really what I’m trying to teach people, is how to put themselves out there, in that way.
Larry:
Right, and I think you’re exactly right. It’s that conversational basis of this that’s going to help them establish their authenticity. But there are some issues with translating that day to day conversational stuff, into a digital medium. Are there any jump starting kind of tricks you have, for helping people actually get writing or blogging or podcasting, or whatever kind of content it is they’re creating?
Kronda:
My main trick for that is a loving, but gentle kick in the butt. I think the reason that people get stuck on this, is because they think they need one more course, or one more strategy, or one more tactic, and there’s an analogy that has been popping up for me a lot.
Kronda:
Because I talked to a guy recently, who was a dating coach, and that always makes me think of the guy hiring a dating coach and asking, “Okay, what’s the pickup lines that are gonna fix my dating problem? What are the strategies, and what are the tips?” What’s actually true is that you have to become a person worth dating, right? And so, in marketing, the version of that, “Okay. Gimme the templates, gimme the cheat sheets, gimme the strategies and the tactics.”
Kronda:
Well, actually, you have to become a person worth following. You have to become a person of value. You have to become a leader in your space, and you have to do that digitally, so that you can scale it, because it’s not scalable to just go to networking meetings forever.
Kronda:
And so, that’s kind of what I’m getting at, and really focusing on core principles, and not so much on trying to teach people a bunch of stuff. Just teach them the right stuff, and then, getting them to go out and do it, because that’s the hard part. This stuff is experiential, and you have to just start. You can’t watch a video about how to tie your shoes, and know how to tie your shoes. You have to do it.
Larry:
Exactly, and sometimes, you said that, like, a kick in the butt, I think, is the term you use. But how does that manifest in terms of, if somebody’s just, they’re stuck in either a perfectionism trap, or a, like that petrified fear, whatever it is? Yeah, are there little tactical things you do to help people get to what you were just talking about? Because all those things you’d said make perfect sense, that you’d want to be out there. How do you get them to actually get that on, in an e-mail newsletter, or on the website, or whatever?
Kronda:
Yeah. Well, that’s the trick. So, a couple of things. One is, I really focus on helping them to find why it is whatever goal they have is important. Because your reason for doing what you’re doing has to be bigger than the fear of doing it. So that’s one key to keep internally motivated. And the other thing is just, sort of contextualizing it in a science-based way. Our brains are still kind of prehistoric in some ways. Your lizard brain is still trying to keep you safe from saber-toothed tigers.
Kronda:
And so, there’s a part of your brain that is terrified to rock the boat, because we need the tribe to survive, and it’s terrified of little things, because that shadow might be a saber-toothed tiger. So, kind of understanding that and realizing that and conceptualizing that, I think, helps some people to realize, “Oh, okay, this is just my brain trying to sabotage me, let me go and do what I need to do.” And as you go through that process, you start to normalize, and be able to push through. That’s a skill, being able to push through that fear is a skill, and again, you just have to start doing it, and build up that muscle.
Larry:
Yup. You’re reminding me of, a guy here in Seattle, Scott Berkun, actually a friend of mine. He wrote a book called Confessions of a Public Speaker, and he talked about how the fear of public speaking is completely rational. Because the last time in human history that 200 pairs of eyes were trained upon you, you were probably about to be killed, or something, so it makes sense.
Kronda:
Right, right.
Larry:
And you just need tricks to get by that.
Kronda:
Exactly.
Larry:
And so, presumably, it’s the same thing for digital presence, yeah.
Kronda:
Yeah.
Larry:
Hey, Kronda, I want to go back when we first met. The first time we had a conversation was down at WordCamp Portland a couple years ago. And it was one of those birds of a feather lunch things. At some point, we got to talking about trading resources, and you immediately struck me as – “Oh, my God, she knows everything, and she has two or three good resources for each topic that has come up.”
Larry:
Tell me about that, like, how did you get that? I think a lot of people would like to be that way, and we all kind of add more to things, and things like that. But you were so focused and had the exact right resource for every question that came up from people there. Tell me a little bit about your, kind of, how that came to be.
Kronda:
Yeah. So one thing I say a lot, especially when I do presentations, is I’ll play a game with people, where I say, “If you can ask me a question that I don’t have a link for,” then I’ll offer some sort of prize. It’s just one of my life missions, is to have a link to answer the things that I get asked most often. And so, I’ve just been very intentional about collecting those.
Kronda:
If you want to super nerdy about it, I use <a href=”https://textexpander.com/”>TextExpander</a>. And so, if it’s links, then I’ll have shortcuts that will expand into the link for the article, or the book, or whatever it is I need. So that’s how I can come up with those so quickly. But content is assets, and I’ve just been collecting assets over the years, so that I can have them when I need them, and share them.
Larry:
Right. The other thing that struck me in that conversation, in that interaction, was that you’re kind of a process nerd, too. That you not only have lots of resources at your disposal, but you have really effective mechanisms for making the stuff get done.
Kronda:
Yeah.
Larry:
Tell me a little bit about that.
Kronda:
So when I really, really started nerding out on processes was when I, the second time I read the book, Work The System, by Sam Carpenter. It really got into me, and I started proselytizing, and I would talk to business owners and say, “Have you accepted documentation and process as your personal savior?” Because, especially service-based business owners, which is primarily who I work with, we’re always pressed for time. It’s always, too much to do, and not enough time to do it.
Kronda:
The only way that you get past is to be able to become more efficient. Even if it’s just you, taking a second to turn on that screen share, before you do something, and document how you do it, it’s going to do two things. One, it’s going to help you, and do it faster the next time, and minimize errors, if it’s you doing it. And two, if you’re going to outsource that to someone else, then you’re going to have a way to get that done, the way you want it done, and get the same outcome every time.
Kronda:
So that really made a huge impression on me, and something that Sam says is that the only difference between small struggling businesses and large successful ones is that documentation and process.
Larry:
Interesting. So there’s an example of content in and of itself being sort of a marker of success. But, as you’re talking, I’m wondering also about, kind of jumping the forward from that, to measuring the sort of more conventional ways that people measure content effectiveness, or your return on investment, or however you think about it. Do you work with your folks on that, and do you have a way … is one of your, part of your process, to have a way to have a feedback loop about how well content is working for your folks?
Kronda:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I track my content. I have a master spreadsheet, basically, with all my content. Because, again, content is an asset, and one of the main things I teach people upfront is to think about it in that way. Because I posted on Facebook the other day, that struggling business owners will say the same thing a thousand times, but don’t have time to blog. So, at some point, you have to flip the switch, and understand that if you start to get things out of your brain, and into a format where other people can consume it, that’s how you can save time, that’s how you can build authority.
Kronda:
We literally say, “Someone wrote the book on something.” So publishing is what makes you an expert, in other people’s eyes. And so, yeah, tracking that … generally, I use spreadsheets, and I’ll track how engaged people were with that content, and you can track things like opt-ins, and things like that.
Larry:
Right, and generally, I’m assuming, because you have a lot of repeat business, and people like you, that that’s working well, that people are getting good results?
Kronda:
Yeah. I mean, the ultimate is when people start to come to you, and you don’t have to sell them, because they’ve already been through your content. They’ve been on a journey, and they’ve convinced themselves that you are the answer to their problem. So that’s kind of the ultimate goal, for me, with content, is helping people reach that point of, “Oh, yeah, okay. When I’m ready to do this, I know I need to call Kronda, I know I need to call Ken, I know where you are just the obvious choice.” Because you’ve established that authority.
Larry:
Right, and the way you just said that about, exactly how you said it, about … that publishing is what establishes you as an authority. That, to me, is almost like the definition of content marketing. That’s sort of the whole point of sharing all this, is that you put yours in. Like you said, it’s not like you’ve literally written the book, you don’t have a physical artifact to put down on the desk. But maybe you do. I mean, some people do that.
Larry:
But can you tell me more that? So, is that how you think of content marketing? Is that sort of the point of all this authentic, genuine, figuring out how to get stuff out of your head, and onto a Web page, or a social media post?
Kronda:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a big part of it. But the other part of it is that I really want to help people, and most of the people I work with really want to help people. And so, there’s a lot of people who can’t afford to hire me, who are maybe earlier in their business, and content allows me to be able to help them help themselves, either get, reach their goals, or get to the point where they can hire me, or whatever it is.
Kronda:
I don’t have time to sit down and have coffee dates with people who want to pick my brain about whatever it is, but I can share content that helps them get the same information, on their own time, and their own terms. And I literally have a post on my website called <a href=”https://karveldigital.com/coffee-dates/”>Coffee Dates</a>, and explains, “Here’s why I’m not gonna have coffee with you. But also, here’s a ton of resources for whatever it is that you’re trying to find out.”
Larry:
Oh, that’s great! I love that, that you put it that way, because I think that is … I don’t know, do you have a feel from watching the traffic on your site, or just the interaction with folks over the year? Like, do you feel like you’ve helped 10 times as many, 100 times as many, 1,000 times as many people, with the content on your site, as you have, as a consultant?
Kronda:
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I haven’t looked at my stats lately. I honestly spend more time creating content than digging in the weeds of Google Analytics. But, for sure, I have. I mean, I’ve been out and about in Portland, and have people come up to me and say, “Oh, hey. I watch your videos.” So …
Larry:
That’s great!
Kronda:
Yeah. So it’s like, “Oh, okay. Business celebrity status.” So I’m definitely helping more people, by getting things online, and actually, one of my office mates this week called me. She said, “Oh, you’re my new Wikipedia,” and she called me Krondapedia. And it wasn’t even about business. We were talking about biking and puppies.
Larry:
Oh, right, yeah.
Kronda:
I said, “Oh, go to my personal blog. I’ve got an article about, ‘Stay warm in the winter while biking,’ and I’ve got tons of stuff about puppies, because I just got a puppy,” and she’s like, “Oh, you’re like Krondapedia.” I often tell people, “If you have a question you think I know something about, Google my name, and your question, and you’ll probably get something that I wrote.”
Larry:
Nice. Well, hey, let me … I wonder, all of a sudden, I’m wondering if we can do a little cherrypicking right now. Do you have any favorite resources for content, like, well, either for content … you mentioned the discovery process, and how you do that. Do you have any tools that help in that part of the process?
Kronda:
Like, for people wanting to kind of go through discovery on their own?
Larry:
Yeah, I know there’s a lot to that. That’s kind of a, not the best, most focused question I’ve ever asked, but … but, I guess, just in general, helping people with their content efforts. Are there tools, resources, things that you go back to, all the time?
Kronda:
Yeah, I actually have … so I have a member vault, where I keep all my freebie content, and there is specifically a content creation framework in there, that kind of gives you a framework for creating content, that makes sure that it’s useful, that it’s specific, that you have a call to action, and can really help people with … have something besides the blank page, right?
Kronda:
So that’s something that’s just in my vault, that I offer. I have a ton of things on my blog around creating content. I did a video challenge last year, where I created a video every day, for 30 days, and that was while life was happening. All these things were going on. I was finishing up creating an online course. I was traveling. And so, you can go back, and you can look at those videos, and of course, the last video was, how to create content quickly. And all the videos are around five minutes or less.
Larry:
Gotcha. Hey, I want to back up to something you just said about one of the resources. You said something that discovery process about helping … oh, shoot, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but you said something about helping people focus in their discovery efforts. And I’m just wondering … oh, I know what it is. Earlier, you talked about, a lot of this is just getting that conversational thing out of their head, and into digital media. But that can be a little blabbermouthy.
Larry:
Or, not blabbermouthy, but, how do you help people focus their … oh, I know, because, in getting back to what you said about intent. There’s a lot … sometimes, you have to pare down all the things you’re saying, to get to the most essential and intentful thing. How do you help folks with that?
Kronda:
So, that’s something that comes with creating content as a habit, instead of making it into this big thing, like, “Okay. I gotta do my monthly blog post, and it has to be perfect, and it has to say every little thing,” versus, if you’re putting out a blog post a month, but you’re also posting on social media, or you’re also doing a Facebook live.
Kronda:
When I, I create content, because if I think of an idea, I want to get it out into the world. And so, I do that, and I put it out into the world. So there’s not so much pressure on trying to say all the things. Because, you can say something else tomorrow, you can say something else in an hour. When you normalize putting out content like that, it really just takes the pressure off, so you can actually have ideas, and say what you need to say.
Kronda:
The other thing to realize is that coming up with ideas for content, and creating content, should really be two separate tasks. And that’s something that a lot of people don’t understand. Well, like, it’s different parts of your brain, and if you say, “Okay, I’m gonna write an e-mail once a week,” and you sit down to write it, and you start by thinking of the idea, you’ve already lost.
Kronda:
You need to sit down and say, “Okay, I’m gonna think of 50 e-mail ideas, and just have that in my bank, and schedule those out.” Or have that where you can sit down and you can say, “Okay, which one of these ideas is resonating with me right now?” So separating those tasks is a huge one.
Larry:
Well, that’s interesting, and again, we’re getting back. I think we, can’t remember if we talked about this before, and a second ago, but the difference between big organizations, and a solopreneur who’s doing this stuff. It’s like, you’ll have a whole separate, an editorial planning and calendar process, where you’re generating ideas, and you have sort of a pathway. And you say that, for an individual, it’s more about, “Don’t try to come up with the idea every week. Have that as a separate thing, and then, you’ll have this bank of things to draw on.”
Kronda:
Exactly. And I take my clients through a process where we come up with 100 ideas in about two hours.
Larry:
Nice. Yeah, because that’s a whole other thing. Hey, I just noticed, we’re coming up on time, Kronda. We’re pretty far into this.
Larry:
I always like to give my folks a chance, towards the end of the conversation, is there anything last? Anything I haven’t asked you about, or that’s just on your mind, about content and content strategy lately, that you’d like to share with our folks?
Kronda:
You know, I think the most important thing is to do it, and there’s a lot of … I presented at WordCamp Seattle, which is where we ran into each other, and a lot of people came up to me, and were very complimentary afterwards. I said, “What’s the most valuable thing that you took away?” She said, “I’m gonna organize my files.” And that was like, the most important thing that she took away from my talk, which is great, because that’s important.
Kronda:
I said, “Well, what’s been stopping you?” She said, “Well, I couldn’t come up with the right folder names.” This is digital files we’re talking about, right?
Larry:
Interesting!
Kronda:
I said, “Is this like, a stone tablets edition? Like, you can’t change anything?” And she had let this thing just stop her from doing this thing for a year, and so, if you take nothing else away from this, I would say, lower the stakes for yourself, and implement. The learning is in the doing, and the progress and the momentum are in the doing.
Kronda:
If you don’t know or give a crap about SEO, and you just want to help people, you’ll get a lot further than the person who is spending an hour, and yeah, just trying to get every green light in Yoast.
Larry:
Right.
Kronda:
So, go out and help people, and just do it, and implement content. And make it a habit, and kind of normalize it for yourself. And I think the people who are out there doing that are the ones who are going to win.
Larry:
Yep, I love that. The way you said that, helping people, and just being of service. People appreciate that, and they’ll-
Kronda:
Yeah.
Larry:
Yeah, and doing that. Well, thanks so much, Kronda. This has been a great conversation. I really enjoyed having you on.
Kronda:
Thanks for having me. This is awesome.
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