Scott Peltin: Sustainable Human Performance – Episode 133

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Nearly every episode of this podcast has included the observation that content strategy is fundamentally a people practice.

We talk a lot about practices, procedures, tools, techniques, and technology. But they are always implemented in service to our customers and users and in collaboration with our colleagues and stakeholders.

Scott Peltin is the co-founder and Chief Catalyst at TIGNUM, a company that helps executives and their teams optimize their performance at work. He typically works in the C-suite, so it was a real treat to chat in his office about how his insights might benefit managers and practitioners in the content world.

We talked about:

• his role at TIGNUM, helping executives and their teams optimize their performance at work
• the crucial differences between accountability and ownership
• how embracing self-doubt can help you cope with impostor syndrome
• coping skills for dealing with job and career uncertainty, activities like meditation or movement, for example
• how self-awareness techniques like a reflection practice can help you stay grounded and self-aware
• how to cultivate a leadership mindset
• how to actually change your own behavior
• practical approaches to optimizing your day-to-day impact at work

Scott’s bio

Scott Peltin is the co-founder and Chief Catalyst of TIGNUM, the world-leading Sustainable Human Performance development firm. He is the key developer of the TIGNUM content and methodology and the co-author of Sink, Float, or Swim, and BeMore. Over the past 20 years, Scott has helped numerous CEOs, C-level executives, business professionals, professional athletes, professional coaches, and military leaders maximize their performance and impact. Scott’s unique personal experience and education, including 25 years in the fire service, combined with his authentic and practical approach, allows him to help TIGNUM clients develop their Personal Readiness so they can be energy multipliers to others, get stronger and better from stress, and be more mentally agile problem solvers.

Connect with Scott online

• TIGNUM website
• TIGNUM ThoughtCast podcast

Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:

Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content Strategy Insights podcast, episode number 133. There’s a truism that comes up in almost every episode of this podcast: that for all of the practices and procedures, techniques and technology that we bring to our work, content strategy is fundamentally about people – our customers and users, our many collaborators and stakeholders. Scott Peltin helps people show up at work ready to lead and perform. I hope that as we talk you’ll feel your impostor syndrome slipping away and your leadership mindset growing.

Interview transcript

Larry:
Hey everyone, welcome to episode number 133 of the Content Strategy Insights podcast. I’m really happy today to have with us Scott Peltin. Scott is the chief catalyst at a company called TIGNUM. Welcome, Scott. Tell the folks about yourself and what TIGNUM does.

Scott:
Yeah, thank you, Larry, for having me. It’s really, really great to be here. Basically, TIGNUM, when you think about it is our specialty is sustainable human performance. We help executives, and leaders, and teams, anyone who’s trying to deliver a bold project, show up at their best, basically. Make the biggest impact possible consistently. Day in and day out at work, and of course, also at home. That means anything that impacts the brain and the body, anything that helps you perform at your best, from your mindset to the way that you recover, to the way you prepare, to the foods that you eat, and the way that you move to make yourself more creative and enhance brain performance, anything that has to do with the human and human performance, that’s what we focus on.

Larry:
That’s perfect. This is why I wanted to have you on the show because one thing that comes up in this podcast all the time is yeah, content, policies, procedures, practices, all these things, but it’s mostly about people and that’s your realm of expertise. But I also have to talk a little bit about how we came to be acquainted because I think that’s a good story. It’s a little convoluted, so bear with me for just a minute.

Larry:
Two things have happened since the pandemic unfolded. I moved to Phoenix to ride out the pandemic with family, and part of that has entailed a lot of walking around the neighborhood. I kept walking by this pickup truck that had a license plate that said TIGNUM, and I was like, “What the heck does that even mean?” Obviously I know now, but also the other activity I’ve done during the pandemic is spent all my time on Zoom talking to content colleagues around the world, one of whom was this young man named Ife, who lived at the time in Lagos, Nigeria, and among his writing assignments was for TIGNUM. I was like, “Whoa, that’s too weird.”

Larry:
It turns out that the Ife now works for booking.com, the competitor of the company I currently work for, in Amsterdam, the city I’m moving to in the not too distant future. So there’s a lot of great small-world stories here and people love small-world stories, so more people stuff.

Larry:
But on the way over here, and part of this whole setup too is that we’re now in Scott’s office just a few blocks from where we both live, and so I walked down here. On the walk over, I listened to one of your podcasts, you interviewed one of your colleagues, Katie, and you were talking about the connection between accountability and ownership and the difference between those. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Scott:
Sure. So much is driven by our mindset and the way we frame things. We often say, “When you hear the word accountability, what do you feel?” Often you feel shame. You feel guilt because it’s almost like often a way to say, “I need someone else to hold me accountable.” On the flip side of that, when I think about being an owner, it’s like the difference between how you treat a rental car and how you treat a car that you own. When I think about being an owner, it’s something that I’m passionate about, it’s something that I take care of. It’s something that I do because I want to, not because I have to or I’m held to. And so when we take an ownership mindset, we completely approach things differently. And in our sense, it’s owning the impact that I make. So even if you’re a content person, you’re doing it for a reason, for a purpose. It’s not just about delivering on a deadline, it’s about the connection that you’re going to make, the reason that you’re doing it. That’s an owner mindset.

Larry:
And that gets, I think one of the common professed concerns among many content people is this notion of impostor syndrome. And that somehow seems related to this concept of ownership versus accountability. You’re nodding your head.

Scott:
Yeah, sure. We talk about impostor syndrome all the time and mainly about how dysfunctional it is to use the term. Because when you think about it, once I’ve labeled myself as I’m an impostor or I have impostor syndrome, my brain will prove that to be true. We like to look at it from the other side, which is really what you have is you have self-doubt. And there’s the myth that self-doubt is bad because it means I must not believe in myself. But we believe the opposite actually. That when we learn to embrace self-doubt, self-doubt is a normal part of not only being a human but being a human that’s trying to stretch ourselves, being a human that’s trying to do bold things in a complex and chaotic world. How could I not have self-doubt? In fact, I would almost argue that if you didn’t have self-doubt, something’s not right. You might need actually some psychological help.

Scott:
And so we really work with our executives to embrace self-doubt and to see it as the first step, the impetus to building true authentic self-belief. Now, true, authentic self-belief isn’t that I know I’ll succeed, but it’s that I know I can figure this out. And the way we do that is a process actually that we’ve built, a self-belief planner. And one of the ways we do that is we start to reflect and track big projects that I’ve done, other times that I’ve encountered self-doubt and overcome it. What did I do? What was the outcome? Was it really as bad as my brain made it? Because often if we can deal with the worst outcome, we can deal with anything. What did I learn from these bold projects that I did and how does that make me better and more prepared to maybe solve this next problem?

Scott:
And the more that I do those things, the more I can actually go back and even read my own history and say, “Okay, when I say I believe in myself, I can prove it.” So therefore self-doubt is okay. Because one of the myths unfortunately is that the better I get, the less self-doubt I’ll have. But that’s not true. Actually, the better I get, the more self-doubt I’ll have because I’m going to take on bigger and bolder projects. There’s going to be more onus of what happens if I don’t deliver because the risk is going to be higher. I’m going to be surrounded by other really high-performing smart people who are going to challenge what I think I know. So guess what? Unfortunately, if you want to be out in the real world and do big things, you better learn how to embrace self-doubt.

Larry:
A fantastic reframing, I got to say. So if you feel the slightest twinge of impostor syndrome, you just go, “Oh, that’s just some self-doubt. I know how to deal with that and I’m prepared because I know the more successful I become, I’ll be dealing with it more.” I love that. I just made an inference from what you’re saying about that, that’s what’s going on, that you need some self-awareness to take that kind of insight and go like, “Oh, that’s just self-doubt. I can deal with that.” Do you have other tricks in your trade?

Scott:
Yeah, so I don’t like to think of them as tricks, because they’re really proven strategies and techniques, but you think even our body language. The second that I doubt myself, what happens to my body language? My shoulders might round, I don’t make the same eye contact, I lose my smile. I’m telling my brain, my body is telling my brain, “Uh-oh, I’m in trouble.” So, one is I manage my posture. I manage the way I present myself. I’m not faking it, but I’m actually telling my brain, “You’re okay, you have this, you’re in a little bit of discomfort. But discomfort is where great things happen.”

Scott:
And so even our greatest athletes, the World Cup is going on right now. And whether I brought up Messi or Ronaldo and I asked you, “Do you think they have self-doubt before a big game?” Full of it, full of self-doubt because they’re human. And this is part of what we need to accept. And that’s why I hate the term I have impostor syndrome because it makes it sound like I’m a damaged human or I’m an unnatural human or a human that has a condition, but it’s not true. Anxiety, nervousness, self-doubt, those are all normal things that we feel if we’re a human.

Larry:
And as you talk, you’re reminding me of the fundamental attribution error. This famous, I don’t know if it’s a cognitive bias, but it’s in that family of things where we attribute wholly to the entity that’s doing the thing like, “Oh, you’re a horrible person because you cut me off in traffic,” other than like, “Oh, the kid was acting up,” or whatever the thing. Does that make sense? Is that a concept that applies in your work?

Scott:
Totally. Well, the brain is designed to tell stories and the brain is designed to protect us. And so often when we have this self-doubt or what you called impostor syndrome, in some ways it’s telling me, “Don’t engage in this because maybe you’re not good enough.” And it’s trying to protect me from failure. But if I tell my brain, failure’s not a bad thing, I’m not afraid to fail, failed many times, bring it on, then my brain says, “Okay, well in that case, let me help you succeed.” All the brain wants is a picture of what success looks like. And this is one of the reasons if we don’t embrace self-doubt, we tend to avoid great challenges that grow. If I look at your field, I could ask you, “In the last five years, how much has the field of content development and content execution, content management, how as much has it changed?”

Larry:
It’s a lot. That’s a very safe bet. I feel like I’m doing a fairly decent job. Well actually I’m not dealing with it myself that much. I just do this podcast so that I can talk to other people, learn how they’re dealing with it and steal their ideas. So there I’ve been outed-

Scott:
Smart.

Larry:
… as an appropriator. Hey, another thing you mentioned the word anxiety a couple times earlier. And we’re in a state, we’re recording this in early December, 2022 and in the wake of a whole bunch of tech layoffs and there’s been, I don’t know, maybe even as recently as four or five months ago in the tech world, we all felt like we were finally getting our seat at the table and had a little more control. Now there’s this a broad feeling of, “Oh crap, I could lose my job tomorrow.” Is that something you see in your work and help people deal with?

Scott:
Yeah, the world is crazy right now. I did a session with some of the top leaders at Meta, formerly know as Facebook, and the next day they announced they were laying off 10,000 people. And I don’t care where you are, there’s some type of reorganization, there’s some shift in human capital and people are losing jobs, people are getting jobs, people are moving. What I always try to do is we try to come back to what’s in your control, what can you actually do? Because the brain is hardwired to focus on what’s out of our control because why would I worry about things I could control? But unfortunately the fact that I can’t control them makes them also often unsolvable. So what we try to do is bring you back to, so in that situation, what can you control?

Scott:
Well, I can show up at my best every day and make the biggest impact possible. I can build my talent pool so that I have more talent to deal with different types of jobs. The bigger impact I make, the less likely I am to be the one laid off, although it’s still possible, but in the end I have to focus back on what I can control. Now that sounds a little bit like, of course, Scott, that makes total sense, that’s simple. But what I do with this anxiety I’m feeling? Well, I also have to have some mechanisms to deal with that. So one of those similar to self-doubt is recognizing where do I feel anxiety in my body and then trying to stop it as quick as I can. So if I allow it to grow, it’s like a snowball that becomes a snowman. It just keeps rolling downhill.

Scott:
So one of the things is, the second I recognize I try to show my brain there’s a different option. So one option is to allow this to grow, take my breath away, make my chest tight, make my shoulders heavy, or I can add an intervention and take a different path. And what is that different path? So my intervention could be something as simple as a calming breathing technique. Some people like to meditate. I like to get out and do some movement. Going for a walk, it’s amazing how it not only physically releases a lot of that anxious energy, but it opens my brain, my peripheral vision. I’m out in nature and suddenly I think different. Now I’m not thinking about what’s causing my anxiety, I’m thinking about the opportunities that this situation that also caused anxiety is also going to create.
And that’s one of the cool things is how many of us thought it was the end of the world when we lost one job to only to find out the next job, oh my gosh, so much better. I’ve learned so much more. I’ve never met a person that’s gone through a divorce that isn’t happier in their second marriage. It’s funny, but I learned so much from my first marriage, but at the time I was pretty anxious about getting a divorce. What’s this world going to look like? What’s the unknown?

Scott:
So often what I try to do when there’s this huge anxiety, it’s a fear of the unknown, what do I know? What can I control? So I’m going to wake up, I’m going to start my day strong. I’m going to make a list of the things I need to learn today. I’m going to do the things that I can that I can impact in the best way that I possibly can. It’s amazing how many people get anxiety and then they stop doing a good job on the things they’re doing, which is only going to create more anxiety because I’m lowering my value to someone else, which is what I’m anxious about.

Larry:
One of the things I’ve heard you talk about is self-awareness around that kind of stuff. How do you know? Everything you said makes sense, but when you’re caught up in the throngs of anxiety or whatever’s going on, do you have cues or techniques or just little things you can do to remind yourself to pull back and remind yourself of the successes and the positive things?

Scott:
Yeah, I think in many ways it’s developing a reflection practice. You used the word practice and I like that a lot. When we get busy, one of the first things that we lose is free time. And we lose time that we can just reflect. I know you walked over here to do this and you mentioned you listened to a Thoughtcast. So I can imagine I wasn’t in your brain. There’s a lot of thoughts just popping in your head just on that walk. So it’s amazing how movement opens up the brain. And so that changes everything, right? Because I changed my environment, I changed everything.

Scott:
I like using movement as my reflection time. So when I go for a walk between meetings or between something or in my transition from home to work or work to home, I like creating a reflection exercise. What did I do well? What did I learn today? What kind of challenges did I face? What questions do I need to answer tomorrow? That reflection, what am I feeling? What’s my gut telling me? Is this right or is this wrong? How could I look at this differently? Am I making a story up in my mind? Is this a bias that I’m confirming or is it true? How could I prove that?

Scott:
I was a firefighter before starting TIGNUM. When we came upon a fire, we would always say, “You have to account for all seven sides of a fire. The inside, the front, the left side, the back, the right side, above the fire, below the fire. Whatever you don’t account for may be the thing that kills you.” Well, problems are the same, but how could I look at all seven sides of a problem if I’m sitting in the same place looking at it with the same anxiety and the same bias? So I create a reflection practice, and I add, like I say, movement to do it. Movement to me is the magical place that I accomplish a lot of this. I’d say, “Hey, let me walk around the other side of that problem and look at it differently.” I might call a friend. You talk about the people that you interview. What a great different perspective. Hey, let me throw a problem by you or throw by what I’m feeling. How could I look at this different? So that’s the way I like to approach it.

Larry:
The perspective is what you’re talking about, both perspective and how you attain that perspective. For you it’s walking and I think we’re similar in that way. I just have to move and walk and get around. But for other people I might be picking up the phone to call a friend or who knows what other mechanisms help people do that.

Larry:
There’s a whole other conversation to be had there, but another thing I want to ask you about that I’ve been reminded of as you were this last talk is one of the things that’s changing for content people, you mentioned the last five years. One of the things that’s happened over the last five years is that a lot more content people are in leadership positions, either because content teams are growing and they have to lead them or they’re moving into broader UX or other technical leadership roles in a place. It sounds like you’ve helped people move up a level in an organization. It’s not always a level, too. Sometimes there’s a lot of talk about leadership from wherever you are. Even if you don’t get a promotion, you still have a leadership mentality. What are your thoughts on leadership in an organization?

Scott:
Yeah, well I like your perspective that it’s not hierarchical because the truth is when we hire a content expert, they’re a leader in the fact that they know things about content that I don’t know. It doesn’t matter if they’re my boss or not, they’re coming, and I hope every content person comes with that mindset because they are the leader of content or else they wouldn’t have been hired. We have a saying at TIGNUM that drives everything we do and that is that human beings can’t outperform our own self-image. At the same time, we’re the only creature on earth that can purposefully design or create our self-image. So if I want to be a leader and I’ve never been a leader, well my self-image doesn’t see me in that role, then of course my brain is going to sabotage me to convince me I’m not really that person.

Scott:
So one of the exercises we do is, it’s called your “to be” vision, but we write a statement about who I am as a leader. So define yourself. I am. And it’s a bold statement and it’s sometimes a little bit of a stretch. So it’s a little bit prescriptive as well as descriptive. But I draw upon my best qualities and my experiences of why and who I would be as a great leader. And when I do that then, and I read that every day, I actually use a thing in my favor called frequency bias. I read it every day and the more frequently I do it, my brain tries to prove that true. And so it’s looking for opportunities for me to speak up in a meeting, to challenge the status quo, to ask other people for help, something leaders often aren’t good at, to follow up and ask ongoing questions. The more that I create that, the more that my brain follows that it’s the map that our brain follows.

Larry:
Nice. And how do you map that terrain? I’m all of a sudden picturing the geographer role in this. How do you map that terrain and then navigate and negotiate it?

Scott:
Yeah, so we have a digital platform called TIGNUMX that does it with artificial intelligence. So it creates your first version and then you can edit it. We add a picture to it so that I can see myself doing it. And that doesn’t have to be a real picture of me and something. It can be a picture that inspires me. One of our clients picked an eagle and I asked her, “Why would you pick an eagle?”

Scott:
And she said, “Well, an eagle has perfect vision at 2,000 feet and perfect vision at two feet. It’s a bird of prey, but it’s amazingly graceful. It has incredible power, but it knows exactly when to spread its wings and just allow the air currents to help it travel.” And she said, “That’s the kind of leader I want to be.” So again, that’s very emotional and meaningful and that one picture tells so many stories. So that helps build the terrain.

Scott:
But then you can take, when I write my to be vision in sentences, I can then ask myself, what do I need to do today to be that sentence? I can score it on a scale of one to 10, how did I show up today when I reflect. Today I was only a six. Wow! What would I have to do to be an eight in that sentence? So I might have a sentence like I am open-minded, curious, and always willing to challenge my own bias. So then I ask myself at the end of the day, “How did I do with that? Did I ask for feedback? Did I challenge my bias? And what could I do tomorrow to do that better?” So as I do this journey, it becomes very tangible.

Larry:
You mentioned earlier, journaling and other practices and daily reminders, just checking in with yourself at the end of the day. Yeah, check, check, check. I did this. Are there other techniques or approaches to? It sounds like a lot of this is about cultivating habits and regular check-ins with yourself.

Scott:
Yeah, so many ways. The key to new habits or any behavioral change is linking it to a benefit that you want. Otherwise you’re back in that accountability. I need an accountability partner to tell me I didn’t do it, and then I feel shame and guilt and then that destroys my self image and now I’m back where I didn’t want to be in the first place. So one of the ways that we do that is first we link what would be the benefits of me making these changes or taking this, we call them choices, that choice.

Scott:
The second thing that’s really helped our clients is my day is driven largely by my calendar. There are events, so I know already know I have an event at 2:00 pm, like today when we’re doing this interview. So how am I going to prepare myself for that event? Well, that’s an opportunity to apply some of these behaviors. Who do I want to be in this interview? How do I want to show up? We use an exercise called intention setting. How do I want to be perceived? What do I want people to know about me? How do I want them to feel?
So imagine a content person that’s going into an ideation meeting where they’re going to brainstorm a content strategy. If they answered those questions, how do I want to be perceived? What do I want them to know about me and how do I want them to feel? They’re already priming the brain to behave in a certain way. They’re already making themselves more valuable and they’re already going to make a bigger impact. Well, since that event already shows up in my calendar, I don’t need an accountability partner to tell me, “Hey, don’t forget to do a ABC,” because it’s already in my calendar. So I literally make a note in my calendar of my intentions so that I know that’s how I want to show up. And I don’t need to memorize them. That’s one of the cool things about the brain. I just need to plant the seed. The brain does an amazing job of watering the seed, cultivating the seed, fertilizing the seed, and growing the seed.

Larry:
That’s great. You just have to be careful what you put in there.

Scott:
You better be careful what seed you plant. That’s very, very true.

Larry:
Exactly. Yeah. Another thing that’s reminding me of as we talk is that a lot of your work is around leadership. Well, actually two things I want to hearken back to you. One is a lot of what you just talked about sounded to me like the way athletes prepare. And I know that before you were a firefighter. Like a lot of firefighters, you were an athlete before that. Does some of this go back to your athletic background in training, like your approach to this stuff or?

Scott:
So actually that’s a great question. When I met my partner Yogi, we had two hypothesis. One hypothesis was that you could train executives like athletes and they would perform better. And the second hypothesis was that if you were well, so if you adhered to a wellness program, you would be a high performer. And we’ve essentially proven both those hypotheses wrong. So the reason you can’t take the athlete approach, although some of it kind of parallels, and I could use athlete examples to help you understand it, an athlete’s world is totally different. My professional baseball players have three games a week, four games a week. You have four games a day. They have space between where they can practice and prepare. They have spring training to hone their skills. You don’t have a spring training because you have to feed your family, you have to pay your rent. They have a huge support system around them from mindset and physical therapy and physical training. You don’t have that. You have to figure that out on your own.

Scott:
So in many ways, executives are not athletes, actually their challenges are way harder. And then the second hypothesis, wellness. Wellness prevents energy leaks. But just because I’m well doesn’t mean that I am a good content producer or a good leader or that I show up my best at that meeting. I know many people that go work out extremely hard, are very healthy, but by 11:00 their eyes are closing, they can’t stay awake and they’re not creative at all anymore. They’re not showing up to their events other than winging them. They’re not really showing up more prepared. So wellness is a nice thing to have and an important thing to have for prevention and for my health, but it doesn’t ensure I’m going to be a high performer. I need to do more.

Larry:
Interesting. So you’ve disproven – and that’s perfect science. That’s the goal of every scientist is to what does it disprove the null hypo… Anyhow, I forget how they phrase it. What’s the operating model now? What is the hypothesis or the insight that has won out that drives you and guides you now?

Scott:
Well, we have an algorithm for sustainable human performance and how you create it. And big part of it is how I make impact. And impact is a combination of several things. So one is my functional readiness, which is my education, my training. The second component of that is, I add that to my role readiness, which is my unique talent experience that I bring to this job, this role to do the critical jobs that need to be done. Where TIGNUM comes in is the multiplier of those things, which is my personal readiness. How do I get my personal readiness from a 0.8 to a 1.2 so that I can multiply that impact? And the way we do it is on three levels. At the bottom level, reduce my energy leaks, which is, is my brain and physiology performing at its best? That probably is a product of a little bit of wellness.

Scott:
But at the next level, how do I tackle my daily challenges? Do I transition from home to work? Do I have a transition from meeting to meeting or work project to work project so that I can be fully present at the next thing I’m doing? And that transition allows me to not only prepare, but to recover in between. Do I have a work to home transition so I can bring my best self home? Because I’m tired at the end of the day and tired at the end of the day is not a negative. That’s the reward for a hard day of work, for doing something that made an impact. But I have to have a transition so I can still show up at home and be my best.

Scott:
And then at the third level, the top level is what we call critical moments. In a day or a week there’s often these events, these days, these things that I need to do where if I’m 5% or 10% better, I multiply my impact. When you’re busy, finding multipliers is huge. So that could be an ideation meeting where you’re really finalizing that content strategy. It could be delivering or writing. For me, having written two books and hundreds of blogs, that opportunity to sit down’s a critical moment for me because it’s taking time. There’s a cost to that time. There’s an impact that I want to make. I want to deeply connect with our consumers of that content. I can’t mess that up. That’s a big moment. But also to be fair, when I go home, my vacation is a critical moment. Going to my grandchild’s gymnastic recital this weekend, critical moment. She’s going to be looking at, am I paying attention? Am I really happy to be there? My reaction afterwards, critical moment. So how we prepare for those critical moments is part of our methodology.

Larry:
Nice. Hey Scott, I can’t believe it. We’re coming up close to time already, but I always like to give my guest the last word. Is there anything last, anything that’s come up in the conversation that you want to elaborate on or just that’s on your mind that you think might be of interest to our listeners?

Scott:
No, I think you know I have a huge passion for content as a writer and a developer and a storyteller myself, as someone that presents and someone who’s developed a lot of our methodology and the way we deliver it. And I’m so intrigued by where content goes. You and I were having this conversation in the beginning. Having written so much content, the thing that I’ve been horrible about is getting the most from each thing that I’ve done. And therefore I’ve had to do a thousand pieces of work to get 10 pieces of work of impact. And I can’t wait to see how your audience, your people, can even help us. We have a new content manager that we love. When they show up at their best, that they can actually help people like me, who’s an expert in one thing, actually make a bigger impact with my content. And at the root of everything, like you said, it’s about humans, that’s why you’re doing what you’re doing and content people are doing what they’re doing.

Larry:
And we are here for you. And I know I can’t wait to meet your new content person, but there’s a thousands of other folks like her out there. Would love to help you with that and cheer you along your mission to do that better. Hey, one very last thing, Scott. What’s the best way for folks to stay in touch, to follow TIGNUM and you?

Scott:
Well, you mentioned our podcast, so that’s TIGNUM ThoughtCast. You can find that on Spotify. You can find that on Apple podcast. You could go to our website, TIGNUM.com, T-I-G-N-U-M.com. You can find me there. You can find all of us if you’re interested. Contact us there. There’s a contact button. That’s probably the easiest way. We publish our TIGNUM Thoughts, which is our blog. Also on our website, so you can find it there. That’s the easiest way. And yeah, we’d love to get new followers.

Larry:
Perfect. Well thanks so much, Scott. Really enjoyed the conversation.

Scott:
Thank you.